Torvalds on C++

Torvalds
https://lwn.net/Articles/249460/ Torvalds on C++ mess. So I'm sorry, but for something like git, where efficiency was a primary objective, the "advantages" of C++ is just a huge mistake. The fact that we also off people who cannot see that is just a big additional advantage. If you want a VCS that is written in C++, go play with Monotone. Really. They use a "real database". They use "nice object-oriented libraries". They use "nice C++ abstractions". And quite frankly, as a result of all these design decisions that sound so appealing to some CS people, the end result is a horrible and unmaintainable mess. But I'm sure you'd like it more than git.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080304231021/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57961 On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Dmitry Kakurin wrote: > > As it is right now, it's too hard to see the high-level logic thru > this endless-busy-work of micro-managing strings and memory.

The string/memory management is not at all relevant. Look at the code (I bet you didn't). This isn't the important, or complex part.


 * > IMHO Git has a brilliant high-level design (object database, using > hashes, simple and accessible storage for data and metadata). Kudos to > you! > The implementation: a mixture of C and shell scripts, command line > interface that has evolved bottom-up is so-so.

The only really important part is the *design*. The fact that some of it is in a "prototyping language" is exactly because it wasn't the core parts, and it's slowly getting replaced. C++ would in *no* way have been able to replace the shell scripts or perl parts.

And C++ would in no way have made the truly core parts better.

> > and comparing C to assembler just shows that you don't have a friggin idea > > about what you're talking about. > > I don't see myself comparing assembler to C anywhere.

You made a very clear "assembler -> C -> C++/C#" progression nin your life, comparing my staying with C as a "dinosaur", as if it was some inescapable evolution towards a better/more modern language.

With zero basis for it, since in many ways C is much superior to C++ (and even more so C#) in both its portability and in its availability of interfaces and low-level support.

> I was pointing out that I've been programming in different languages > (many more actually) and observed bad developers writing bad code in > all of them. So this quality "bad developer" is actually > language-agnostic :-).

You can write bad code in any language. However, some languages, and especially some *mental* baggages that go with them are bad.

The very fact that you come in as a newbie, point to some absolutely original author doesn't like, is a sign of you being a person who should be disabused on any idiotic notions as soon as possible.
 * trivial* patches, and use that as an argument for a language that the

The things that actually *matter* for core git code is things like writing your own object allocator to make the footprint be as small as possible in order to be able to keep track of object flags for a million objects efficiently. It's writing a parser for the tree objects that is basically fairly optimal, because there *is* no abstraction. Absolutely all of it is at the raw memory byte level.

Can those kinds of things be written in other languages than C? Sure. But they can *not* be written by people who think the "high-level" capabilities of C++ string handling somehow matter.

The fact is, that is *exactly* the kinds of things that C excels at. Not just as a language, but as a required *mentality*. One of the great strengths of C is that it doesn't make you think of your program as anything high-level. It's what makes you apparently prefer other languages, but the thing is, '''from a git standpoint, "high level" is exactly the wrong thing. (Linus)'''

threading
https://web.archive.org/web/20071026005249/http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/archive/2006/10/21/163 from https://web.archive.org/web/20071021014108/http://www.artima.com/cppsource/threads_meeting.html

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